Medium-low to no roast and caramel malt aroma. Thanks and keep up the good work. Ive posted some info on the bruclub forums. The filled keg was stored at 35F/2C under 15 psi for 5 days per White Labs recommendations. Im a big fan of WLP925. Like you, I expected this to show significance. Although I have no real empirical comparison. Great Fermentations I have found these same results. If you want to be brewing larger batches, but dont have the equipment, this is an option. Left: partial boil 1.053 OG | Right: full boil 1.051. I have brewed many partial mash beers with top up water in the winter with excellent results. I was a bit skeptic at first of how easy it isIs it just as simple as entering initial and actual Brix readings, or am I missing something? Its all about data. The advantage is that is both rigid and flexible, which allows for two things: 1. The whole pint? 3. M = 5 gal (total volume, m1 + m2). Product Code: SBK050A : Description Additional Information "They who drink beer will think beer." The Brulosophy creed speaks to homebrewers around the world about our shared quest to brew better beer. Here in Ohio we have had a cold winter and I like to brew in the garage for many reasons. I even time-stopped it (or whatever you call that). Got more details on your equipment anywhere on the interwebs? The filled fermentation vessels were placed in a chamber controlled to my desired fermentation temperature of 48F/9C and given time to finish chilling. I found an interesting blog article all about home toasting malt that suggestedleaving the malt at this tempfor30 minutes, turning it a few times throughout, in order to achieve approximately 250 L. ?, Im not sure the rest of us are enjoying Brulosophy that much. Nice exbeeriment . I saved three quart jars of Conan from a NE IPA brew from about 2 weeks ago. The other thing Ive been thinking about, is that the conditions for optimal yeast growth rate are not necessarily the same as those for optimal beer flavor. Cheers! Brewers Hardware I was quite surprised to read your experience. Trying the same experiment with one of the more fussy saison yeasts, or even something like 3711 which will reliably attenuate, could be interesting. Fine pilsner, weizenbier, bock and Mnchner helles are all brewed there. The final volumes ended up being 4.7 gallons and 4.4 gallons. Im only slightly jabbing you. , I am delighted discover you used precisely the video clip Id hope you would use for Olan. Or if they just want to shorten the brew day a bit. We absolutely have more pitch rate xBmts planned! An 11 gallon batch of wort was produced and split between 2 fermentors. Typically I will scoop out around a quart of old trub and leave the rest. Read that again and think about that. Lowers gravity and preferable light color first moving to higher gravity. I prefer to use your vitality starter method (although I aerate via swirling) and have had great results with it. The longer it takes for that to happen, the more risk there is. View Recipe Print Munich Helles (Brulosophy) Whiskeyjack Beer Stats Method: All Grain Style: Munich Helles Boil Time: 90 min Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume) Pre Boil Size: 7 gallons Pre Boil Gravity: 1.039 (recipe based estimate) Efficiency: 73% (brew house) Source: Brulosophy Calories: 165 calories (Per 12oz) Carbs: 17.5 g (Per 12oz) I just wanted to add that slurry doesnt, in my experience, make for a longer ferment. Over time, I invested in the equipment needed to make lagers and have grown to appreciate them for their subtle complexity and the technique driven approach needed to brew them. The wort was boiled for 60 minutes, after which I ran it through my CFC directly into sanitized fermentors for quick chilling. I think I should have made something lighter. It was at this point I noticed what seemed to be noticeably more break material in the full boil kettle. Click pic for ExChilerator Maxx CFC review. The Brew Bag Left: light Munich 13.8 Bx = 1.056 OG | Right: dark Munich 14 Bx = 1.056 OG. Thank you for a nice report. I think, for me, it is lack of patience. But I do think the yeast had more contribution to the flavor of the pressure fermented beer as it warmed. Curious as to if you know if Fermcap would have any impact on the ability to reuse yeast, as I typically use slurry, but want to try Fermcap out. They text says the head faded on the standard fermented batch, which is opposite of what is seen in the pic. So just fill a ( sterilized ) mason jar with yeast cake and liquid from the bottom of the nearly empty fermenter and put it in a fridge for weeks or 5 months until you are ready to ferment again? The beers were placed in my keezer and briefly burst carbonated before I reduced the gas to serving pressure. . Great test. Thanks for the great experiments. I'd been interested in making a more traditional German style lager beer with Nottingham yeast fermented cool and thought Munich Dunkel seemed like a good fit. The worts were left in my chamber until they stabilized at my desired pitching temp, at which point I split the yeast starter equally between them. You can always reach out to me individually with questions as well. FINALLY! But Im certainly open to changing my mind. My 2c::: From there it is a plastic cube container of ice to chill down to 30c because I hate wasting water and can clean and reuse the ice/water. Maybe not in the water supply per se, but with three kids in my house I would highly doubt that my faucets are bacteria-free. Both of which I didnt start with. Yep, its that simple! Articles featured on Brulosophy.com are selected by The Br Club leadership prior to being submitted for publication. Now does the old adage pitch with slurry from a low abv / lightly hopped have any effect on this method? Jamil Z. always used to talk about repitching from low alcohol, low hop beers when he was just a homebrewer. Munich malt on the lighter end of the spectrum typically clocks in around 5 L and is known to impart enhanced malt flavors as well as hints of sweet graham cracker or even whispers of cherry to beer. MoreBeer! I cant say Ill be using pressurized fermentation for lagers I brew in the future, though I definitely view it as another tool in my brewers toolbox. tf = 60C (desired final temperature) The main drawback is trub buildup, but since I brew 10L batches, if I know Im going to do this, I ferment in a 23L carboy. Been doing it for a couple years and so far no problems. After fermentation has begun and alcohol is present you need the second calculator on the page. Top off with *cool tap water* to 5 gallons, pitch dry yeast when below 80*F. Cover and wait. Learn how your comment data is processed. if you have a great fermentation (good attenuation and flavors) then try a repitch. Mosaic Of Change IPA by House Of Pendragon, http://www.haandbrygforum.dk/download/file.php?id=6694&t=1, https://www.newfoodmagazine.com/article/1550/high-gravity-brewing-the-pros-and-cons/, Water Profile: Ca 21 | Mg 4 | Na 8 | SO4 31 | Cl 30. You lost a lot of viability in those five months I think. Ive never bothered sanitising my tap water. I'll go first. Using remnant wort from each batch, I made vitality starters with Imperial Yeast L17 Harvest. The recipe I selected for this beer experiment is a Mnchner Dunkel because nothing says Summer like a dark, bready German beer. I use slurry most of the time, past 6mos almost exclusively, unless I need a strain I dont have. The concept is an exciting one, but perhaps the xbmt deserves to be re-run in light of this anomaly. Brlosophy relies on minimal advertising to ensure our content remains free, please consider helping us out by disabling your ad blocker for this website. To put it another way, the 3:1 ratio batch is like the first runnings of a partigyle beer. Williams Brewing This also may have been significant if dilution was done post-fermentation. 13 lbs Gambrinus Munich 10L 5.5 lbs German Pils Malt Used in respectable dosage rates for German styles such as Mrzen and Dunkles, many brewers rely on smaller amounts of Munich malt add a toasty, rich malty character to styles ranging from Pilsner to Imperial Stout. If you enjoy this stuff and feel compelled to support Brulosophy.com, please check out theSupportpagefor details on how you can very easily do so. Like you said, gelatin could also have something to do with it. Like any brewing set up, it would require some dialing in and knowing your system, but its an option. And any tips on the best way to avoid over pitching and under? Thankfully no pils in this recipe, and we didnt adjust boil length at all. After a week, I ramped the temperature to 60F/16C and left the beers alone a few more days for a diacetyl rest. Or have I missed something? I just think its amusing when an experiment goes against a practice you like (making starters), you tend to downplay the results a little bit. Would you like to have your experiment featured on Brulosophy.com? Often mistakenly viewed as a specialty grain, Munich malt is considered a base malt and possesses the diastatic power to self-convert, meaning it can be use at rates up to 100% of the grist. Deeply bready-toasty, often with chocolate-like flavors in the freshest examples, but never harsh, roasty, or astringent; a decidedly malt-balanced beer, yet still easily drinkable. a problem, should someone decide to use a very small portion of sloppy slurry. This week, contributor Cade Jobe joins Marshall to answer a bunch of listener submitted questions. The DMS problems are driven off with a longer and strong boil. If we are to make any conclusions from this. Still, I think a more rigorous way of investigating these variables would be to isolate them and test one at a time (follow-up exbeeriments?!). ThermoWorks Super-Fast Pocket Thermometer On Sale for $19 $10 discount Thanks for the feedback! t2 = unknown (cold water temp) ThermoWorks the partial boil batch was 0.002 SG lower than the full boil beer. Each yeast was pitched into its respective carboy. Recipe Awards 2014 Brewfest at Joint Base Lewis McChord in WA state. Brew Hardware. No diacetyl. The date on the slurry jar is the date I collected it from the donor beer (great term!). The recipe i choose was pretty forgiving because of the dark malts. Great Fermentations Todd DeLong is a homebrewer from Long Island who has been brewing since 2013. 6-12 hours later the wort is at pitching temp and the yeast is climbing out of the flask at which point Ill pitch the entire active starter. t2 = 10C William's Brewing. I began to wonder if perhaps the harvested yeast had somehow puttered out when I checked the next day. It could be! Thats just asking for trouble. Now I can brew 2 x 5 gal batchs in my 9 gal kettle !!!!!!!! Thanks for all the great info you share! Amazon This beer can also have hints of nut, caramel, chocolate and toffee. All Grain, ABV 5.09%, IBU 26.64, SRM 23.7, Fermentables: (Barke Munich, CaraMunich I, Spelt Malt, Carafa II, Pilsner) Hops: (Perle, Hallertau Mittelfruh) Other: (yeast nutrient, protofloc, Clarity Ferm, Chalk, Calcium Chloride (dihydrate), Epsom Salt, Gypsum, Table Salt, Baking Soda) Notes: Using the Brulosophy Lager method http . As Marshall pointed out its a little confusing, I should have labelled the actual beers in the image. My traditional method is to make an over sized starter and harvest. lb kg 3.75. ppg 35. (Ive brewed all grain for about 12 years, so the short brew day will be welcome). L 1. use Mash. I think I have an answer for you, but I want to make sure Im answering the question youre asking. Left: partial boil 1.016 | Right: full boil 1.014. I think partial boil could address quite a few issues for new brewers, but definitely boil that water! I have never had any issues with over pitching. Ill do the same things spring with a Belgian Wit, just to see. Boil Time: 60 min. Brlosophy is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and other affiliated sites. This eliminates transferring of the yeast and ensures the yeast is still healthy. If you have any thoughts about this xBmt, please share them in the comments section below! Those other arguments Im not convinced hold muchwater, if any. Since someone gave me an extract kit, I plan to do this soon with extract and ice. Relax and embrace the results of your experiment. I wonder if conventional wisdom is about equipment and various risks. One of the participants, a professional brewer, noted that as the presurized ferment beer warmed, he detected a faint aroma of sulphur, which did not pick up on. Typically I have roughly the same volume of settled yeast in my repackaged vials as came in them to begin with. Well, I brewed a Belgian single back in mid March and made the starter last week. Despite the fact these results corroborate the experiences of some highly trusted homebrewers Ive talked with, Im not quite ready to start ditching the practice of preparing sloppy old yeast in a starter prior to pitching, if only because it added 3 days to my turnaround time and Im impatient. CHeers! I'm of the opinion that making one or two mistakes may not always come thru on the final product as often showed on brulosophy tests. A hydrometer measurement confirmed my concern the SG of the sloppy old slurry batch hadnt dropped at all. I made two yeast starters of WLP925 a few days before brewing. Like so many others here, I too have enjoyed all your work and love the dispelling of our brewing facts! Thanks! Hey dude, no worries! Each blind taster was provided 3 samples of beer, 2 from the sloppy old slurry batch and 1from the fresh yeast batch, then instructedto select the one that was different. Do you just rely on the seal that the metal jar lid makes on top of the mason jar to keep out infection when its in the fridge? Ive always felt advice on pitching rates is at best suspect and at worst unscientific nonsense and this supports my suspicions. Even though lagers seem to be the dominant beer style here in the US, Ales seem to be the beer of choice for homebrewers. Would have been very interesting to know what the pressurised version tasted like after 1, 2, 3, 4 weeks of lagering at room temperature? For the slurry, did you do a diacetyl rest prior to re-using the slurry? I have done this way for years. As for the potential explanations you provide regarding why this happened, your or something else comment seems to call Matts integrity into question. Yes your understanding of my question is correct. Cohumulone: 22 - 28% of alpha acids. For the purposes of this article, the term partial boil refers to the method of producing a high OG wort thats approximately half the intended batch volume and diluting it with water to the target batch volume after the boil to reach the proper volume and OG. Also perhaps somebody with a poorly designed grain holding system might experience more burnt grain near the elements/bottom of the pot. which yields t2 = 20C . After about 4 days in the keg, the beers shared similar levels of clarity and when served quasi-blind in opaque cups, my prowess evaporated, I was wholly unable to reliably distinguish the different beer in multiple trials. Cant wait to look into it more. Episode 250 | Br & A #24. Having poured 20+ servings may have given me a slight advantage, and there were also visible cues head retention was the main culprit. But I have not tried one that old. The more I read, the more it seemed that unboiled, unfiltered tap water might not be a good idea. Beer in Bavaria was dark by necessity until the early 1800s due to how malt was kilned. Putting the beer into geeks since 1996 | Respect Beer. Was it homogenous? Perhaps the sloppy old slurry beer was initially clearer because your process of harvesting has somehow selected more flocculant yeastor maybe thats just how 34/70 behaves after several generations. A very slight nobel hop on the nose can be smelled here. I have used ones two months old, no starter (I only make a starter if I feel I need more yeast than I captured, never to proof it) and find they take off quicker! Red-X is actually not a blend, but produced using a special roasting method. it should be fine. I transferred 4.5 gallons/17 liters of wort to a stainless conical fermentor and the same amount to a keg modified for pressurized fermentation. based on May the Schwarzbier Be With You Brulosophy . You just have to plan for it (i.e., not pitch a blonde ale onto a stout cake). Its a simple matter of lauter efficiency. The trub cake in the sloppy old slurry batch was obviously thicker and contained much more debris. Learn how your comment data is processed. If the tap water is colder, then you might want to increase the boiled-off wort volume and decrease the cold water addition. The Brew Bag Could be! I started the light Munich batch about 20 minutes before the dark Munich batch. Since it didnt, it made me realize that I know of breweries (both macro and local craft) that brew a stronger strength beer that is then diluted with water. Those who made a correct selection in the triangle test were asked to complete a brief comparative evaluation of the 2 different beers. I couldnt find an edit button after I posted that! Of all of the recommendations given to new brewers looking to make their beer better, moving from partial to full boils is pretty high on the list. A comparison of Briess 10 L vs. Weyermann 5L vs. 10 L would be interesting. I would rather use a bit more barley and hops to account for decreasing efficiency in partial boil (if any) than purchase a bigger and expensive kettle and other things to do all grain. A German-style dunkel, sometimes referred to as a Munchner dunkel, should have an aroma comprised of chocolate roasted malt and bread or biscuit-like features that stem from the use of Munich malt. It was at this point I had to make a decision, as I was heading to Seattle for 11 days to help my father in law recover from a stroke. For example a Newton (measere of force) is the force required to accelerate 1kg by 1m/second and a Watt (measure of power) is the work needed every second to keep an object at 1m/s constant velocity against an opposing force of 1 Newton. I proceeded with racking the warm beer to separate sanitized kegs. Well done on the experiment, I have only brewed under pressure so it is really interesting to see interest and feedback in this area, I have some really interesting data from brews at different pressure and temperature if anyone is interested? which yields m1 = M*(tf-t2)/(t1-t2) = 2.78 gallons. I then pressure transferred the beer from the conical fermentor to a keg and let it lager for 8 weeks, all while the pressurized fermentation batch sat at room temperature. Ill have to try this with all grain batches to simplify my brew day. Yes, the concepts are, but the maths itself is not! Im still scratching my head a bit. The equations are correct, but the uncertainty around input variables makes the results questionable. Because they looked different. and hence stop the isomazation, e.g. After 24 hours on 40 psi of CO2, the beers were perfectly carbonated. Hey thanks! The apparent lack of differences between the beers suggests pressurized warm fermentation of lagers can be used to turn batches around quickly, plus it makes carbonating the beer naturally easy. Your post really made my day! I had to readjust the spunding valve a couple times during the first 24 hours before it held steady. Maybe its extract? Admittedly, the results from this xBmt showing neither participants nor I could reliably distinguish beers made using either method left me dumbfounded. This batch came out better than the last batch I did with the fresh pack of 3068. It was about 2 pints 1 pint of dense slurry I previously collected in a 1 quart jar. This being the case, it would make sense that participants in this xBmt were unable to reliably identify a lager fermented warm under pressure from one fermented more traditionally. Forced carbonation leaves a much cleaner flavor. I ask because I have a pilsner fermenting on WLP830 and Id like to put an Oktoberfest on the cake. In conversations following the triangle test, a few people noted a milder sweetness in the beer made with light Munich, reminiscent of cracker and grain, whereas the dark Munich beer was described as being more toasty with a richer malt sweetness. For this batch, I was also super curious how well my home toasted malt would impact the color. I havent tried boiling a 2x concentrated wort but its a fantastic idea and worth exploring further. I expected the full boil beer to be a touch more bitter due to decreased hop utilization from the higher gravity of the partial boil wort, but at the end of it all, everything about these beers was identical to my senses. While 11 tasters (p<0.05) would have needed to correctly identify the pressure fermented beer in order to reach statistical significance, only 8 (p=0.34) chose the unique sample, indicating the beers were not reliably distinguishable. The choice of method and style is a design choice. Of course, an obvious caveat to these findings is that both beers were produced using an all grain method, leaving open the question of whether the results hold true when brewing with extract, which I look forward to exploring in the future. If you enjoy this stuff and feel compelled to support Brulosophy.com, please check out ourSupportpagefor details on how you can very easily do so. While for Weyermann/Best/other German maltsters Munich malt has a color of between 5-8 L / 8-12 L (Weyermann is on the lower end, Best on the higher end), it is different with Briess, Great Western, Gambrinus (and maybe other Norther American maltsters), the paler version has 10 L, while the dark version is 20 L or even 30 L. I was wondering about that difference when adjusting recipes from one side of the pond to the other side I just went with color, so I replaced the pale Briess 10 L with Weyermann Munich dark, but I wonder if this is the right thing to do flavor wise, maybe North American 2-row is different than European barley and needs a higher kilning temperature to get the same flavors? I brewed up a batch of NE IPA this weekend and pitched in the entire quart that I had saved. Therefore, these results seem unlikely to be repeatable in terms of the beers specs. At least yet. Because the beer had absorbed CO2, I pressurized and chilled the serving keg then used the spunding valve to act like a large counterpressure filler. Im not kidding that if youve unlocked some secret to brewing double strength with greater efficiency, then youll be selling your discovery to AB Inbev or Coors for millions. A number of species can act as primary hosts to infect humans as secondary hosts. The taste can be moderately sweet, although it should not be overwhelming or cloying. I believe the craft brewery dilutes pre-fermentation as well. Not too bad for a first attempt. All slurry now freaks me out! After kegging, I fill a couple of pint mason jars with the old cake and stash them in the fridge, and if I plan to use the same yeast on Friday, I will fill a glass growler about a third of the way with some slurry. I do think the clean slurry has quite a bit more yeast per ml than dirty and maybe thats why our different experience. White Labs markets WLP925 as High Pressure Lager Yeast, which to me suggests it has the ability to perform well under higher pressure, though as White Labs informed me, it can also ferment well in more traditionally cool environments. I believe the greater benefit is reducing contamination. 48hrs, then cold crash for 18 and pitched the next day in my Tripel (a little batch, only 3 gallons, but in a 5 gallon carboy to be safe). Awesome test BTW. Cheers! A group of 20 people of varying levels of experience participated in the tasting portion of this experiment. The slurry was harvested in early March and pitched in early August, so about 5 months old. You would not expect it to be as efficient as a batch that used the whole volume of mash water (6:1 ratio). For the hefeweizen I have on tap right now, I pitched a one pint mason jar of more than a month old slurry (Wyeast 3068) into the fresh wort. I then take my new wort and put into the carboy. Given the popularity of Weyermann malts, I chose to use their type I and type II Munich for this xBmt. Very interesting. All designs are available in various colors and sizes on Amazon! Participants were given no information about the beer or experiment objectives. Munich Dunkel. Same! If a standard sized slurry is used, the result indicates that it works just as well as alternative methods albeit the lag time. Then, you put that quart into the fridge until brew day. Learn how your comment data is processed. They were only asked to identify which beer was different. But homebrewers are not running a fermentation bioreactor so what if the number of cell divisions is not perfect? However, considering the results from prior Brlosophy xBmts on lager fermentation temperature, its possible the lack of a consistently perceptible difference between these beers had nothing to do with the pressurized fermentation. Wow, thats a massive difference I look at those two figures and think that it is a significant process variation (like fresh orange juice and concentrate) which accentuates my surprise at the tasting results. Well if you are adding cold water from a sanitized vessel and the wort is already at boiling , wouldnt boiling the additional water be redundant? Williams Brewing How did it become commonly accepted that a partial boil produces worse beer than a full boil? Left: no pressure/cool | Right: pressurized/warm. I know other people have said it, but 5 months is a long time The slurry-carboy was severely under pitched due to low viability and yet it made no difference. Are you suggesting a lower water to grist ratio ought not extract as much sugar, like the water reaches some saturation point or something? . Ive heard for lagers over-pitching is really not as much of an issue, as you want a boatload of yeast for clean flavors in a lager. Visit The Br Club website for more information on this series. Mild caramel, chocolate, toast or nuttiness may be present. Keep it up! lb kg 0.75. ppg . Woops, sorry for wandering off topic. Dark versions tend to hover around 10 L, though darker variants are available, and add a more intense malt character to beer with an edge toward toasted bread. Its only when they are too stressed in one direction or another, or several at once, that bad beer happens. I brew every two weeks, so on my brew week, Im typically kegging a beer on Wednesday night and brewing another a couple days later on Friday night. Who knows. BIAB, ABV 5.16%, IBU 18.18, SRM 4.81, Fermentables: (Pilsner, Munich - Light 10L, Melanoidin) Hops: (tettnang) Brew your best beer EVER. Lets you set the outlet directly below the top of the mash, which in theory helps prevent one channel for hot side aeration, but for sure means less splashing than just drizzling over the mash.